Source Text:
Melissa,
At 02:31 PM 1/12/03 -0500, mwyant@attglobal.net wrote:
> The baptism of Annis/Agnes Martin, dau of Richard & Elizabeth (Salter)
> Martin is given
> in NEHGR 142:351. Source is cited as Mayflower Quarterly 49[1983]:175.
Thank you! Just spun the ole NEHGR cd and found this CHAFFEE info in the
article on "Seventeenth Century Hull, Massachusetts and her People".
--- Susan
SGTAYLOR1@att.net
My Genealogy Website - sgt
http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/
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> mwyant@attglobal.net wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks:
> > I believe that I have Richard Martin, as well, but haven't yet gone any
> further than
> > the "Martin-Pridmore Family Record", a privately printed genealogy
> which didn't
> > always give source cites.
> >
> > Just want to confirm that Richard's son John is the same man that
> married Johanna
> > Esten ca. 1671 at Swansea MA, died Swansea 1712/13 before I go further
> into primary
> > sources.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Melissa
> >
> > Susan Taylor wrote:
> >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > At 11:17 PM 1/9/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote:
> > >
> > > > I research English Churchill families so I am familiar with the Ottery
> > > > Saint Mary registers. I discovered Robert while researching Devon
> > > > Rockbeare Churchills. Robert was a follower of the Rev. Joseph Hull an
> > > > Anglican non-conformist of the type that later became
> > > > Congregationalists. I've been trying to put together Robert's family
> > > > group from Martin researchers on the Martin List but have received
> > > > conflicting information. I agree when you say many early Martin sources
> > > > are mixed up.
> > > >
> > > > After receiving your message I checked the LDS (IGI M002761) batch file
> > > > (this is the real parish register listing without all the "submitter"
> > > > trash) and found a baptism record for your John son of Richard bp 1653.
> > > > It says he was baptised 20 JAN 1653 and lists his parents as Richard
> > > > "Martyn" with mother "Eliza." Thank you, I had no way of knowing this
> > > > was the Rehoboth Richard.
> > > >
> > > > I did not find a baptism for the daughter c.1649 but did find several
> > > > Annis, Anne & Agnes -- those were common female names among OSM Martins.
> > > > It turns out that the IGI is not complete for OSM so this may be why
> > > > there is no listing for your Ann/Agnes.
> > > >
> > > > Martin List researchers do have conflicting information. Some have
> > > > Richard with wife Elizabeth Salter and 2nd married to Judith Upham the
> > > > younger sister of Robert's wife Johanna.
> > >
> > > Thank you for sharing the info you got from the Ottery... church
> > > registries. Judith as Richard's 2nd marriage is an interesting thought.
> > > However, as Torrey, Sanborn and Richard's will - as quoted by Harlow
> in his
> > > message to us - doesn't mention a wife or 2nd wife named Judith, at this
> > > point I'm only considering that piece of data as speculation at best but
> > > still interesting.
> > >
> > > > The LDS IGI (the real IGI) for OSM has quite a number of Martins but no
> > > > one I recognize as Robert and no Johanna Upham -- or any Uphams for that
> > > > matter. I checked the Batcombe, Somerset registers and did not find
> > > > Robert -- and no other Martins save a single Christopher Martin.
> > > > However, church registration only started late in the 16th century so
> > > > Robert's age is pushing a bit the time for registries.
> > >
> > > As to the marriage of Robert and Joanne UPHAM, one of my sources was
> > > Sanborn whose supplements to Torrey you know doubt know about but for
> > > lurkers who don't here's the cite:
> > >
> > > Melinde Lutz Sanborn,
> > > Supplement_to_Torrey's_New_England_Marriages_Prior_to_1700
> (Baltimore, MD:
> > > Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR
> 127:28].
> > >
> > > Anyways, I checked NEHGR 127:28 to see what it actually said. The article
> > > starts on p. 27 and is:
> > >
> > > Harris, Col. Edward M. "Ottery Saint Mary Origin of Thomas Harris" in
> > > The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical_ Register, Vol. 127 (Jan 1973)
> > > (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996).
> > >
> > > p. 28 says:
> > >
> > > "....As made evident by the late Mary Lovering Holman in her series of
> > > 'Notes on Some Immigrants from Ottery St Mary, Devon, England' (The_
> > > American_ Genealogist, 16:88-95, 132-5, 205-6), emigration to New England
> > > was particularly popular in that parish, and a fertile field for those
> > > seeking the English origins of early New England families exists
> there. For
> > > instance, there appears in The_Register (23:33) a note to the effect that
> > > Deacon John Upham of Malden, Mass., based on the evidence of then
> existing
> > > records, was 'brother-in-law' of Joanna, wife of Robert Martin of
> Rehoboth,
> > > Mass., and of Richard Webb of Weymouth, Mass. In the Ottery register,
> > > however, appears recorded the marriage of one Robert Martin and Johane
> > > Upham on 16 Nov. 1618. One can therefore conclude that John Upham and
> > > Joanna Martin were brother and sister. One Richard Martyn and Elizabeth
> > > Salter were married at Ottery on 9 June 1630, quite likely he being that
> > > much younger brother of Robert who died "aged" at Rehoboth, leaving a
> will
> > > proved 7 May 1695 (Charles H. Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts,
> 1900, p.
> > > 303)."
> > >
> > > > Questions:
> > > >
> > > > Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard?
> > >
> > > I only knew of the parts about his daughter Annis and son John but with
> > > Harlow's message I found the will in NEHGR 63:79 :
> > >
> > > Greenlaw, Lucy Hall. "Abstracts from the First Book Bristol Probate
> > > Records" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical Register, Vol. 63
> > > (Jan 1909) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996).
> > >
> > > It was written/dated 2 June 1686 and probated 9 May 1695. Boy, it is
> hard
> > > to read - faded. His son John was sole executor and his "good friends
> > > Deacon Samuel Newman and Wm. Carpenter overseers. It mentions:
> > >
> > > Sons: John in new England and sons Richard and Francis still in old
> England
> > > Daughter: Annis md. to CHAFFEE and Grace md. to ORMSBY
> > > Grandsons: John (eldest son of Richard), 2 sons (unnamed)of Francis, and
> > > John ORMSBY (eldest son of Grace)
> > >
> > > It appears the old England children could not claim their inheritance
> > > unless they came on over. An inventory of his estate was "sworn to" on 7
> > > May 1695.
> > >
> > > I have checked my db again and found I have Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY in
> it! I
> > > didn't have her parents, etc... Now with Harlow's message (thank you
> again
> > > and again Harlow) and subsequence research I can connect her to
> Richard. My
> > > info on Grace comes more or less from my SABIN line. A sibling of my
> SABIN
> > > md. a dau. of John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY - Israel/2 SABIN md.
> 1696 Mary
> > > ORMSBY. I have 5 issue for John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY. However, this
> > > info is not set in concrete for some of the names comes from Savage and I
> > > haven't been able to verify them:
> > >
> > > Grace - from MF5GBillington and SABIN genealogy (source: Arnold's VR
> Rehoboth)
> > > Elizabeth - from Savage
> > > Mary - from MF5GBillington, SABIN (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) and
> Savage
> > > Jonathan - from Savage
> > > Martha - from Savage
> > >
> > > Note: only mentions 1 son while the will of Richard says, "John Omsby- my
> > > daughter Grace's eldest son."
> > >
> > > > Do you have background information on Richard Martin? From what I have
> > > > learned he certainly wasn't in any hurry to assume his brother's
> > > > Rehoboth freehold. Devon records suggest he had something to do with
> > > > maritime shipping or commerce -- ship's officer, owner's agent, owner or
> > > > part owner. One record suggests he captained the bark Blessing.
> > > >
> > > > Which class of gentry was Richard?
> > >
> > > Sorry I know nothing about his background. As to involvement in maritime
> > > stuff and such again I haven't a bit of data to prove one way or another.
> > > His inventory - only a bible mentioned - and will suggests nothing
> > > maritime. I do have a couple of land transactions for him involving
> his son
> > > John and son-in-law Joseph CHAFFEE. Here's one involving the land he
> > > inherited from Robert from Book 2 of Rehoboth Land Records - according to
> > > the CHAFFEE genealogy - says
> > >
> > > "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...Richard Martin acknowledged
> > > having given to his son-in-law, Joseph Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds
> estate in
> > > commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was given him by the will of his
> brother,
> > > Robert Martin."
> > >
> > > Sorry, I haven't more detail on Richard. You have given me much more
> than I
> > > have added to this thread. Thank you.
> > >
> > > --- Susan
> > > SGTAYLOR1@att.net
> > > My Genealogy Website - sgt
> > > http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/
> > > USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/
> > > USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/
> > > USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/
> > > USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/
> > > USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/
> > > *********************************************************
> > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Bill Churchill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:00 PM
> > > > To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony Richard Martin
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > At 09:39 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote:
> > > > Does anyone on the list have the children of the early Richard Martin of
> > > > Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony?
> > > >
> > > > This Richard Martin was the younger brother of Robert Martin the first
> > > > Martin settler of Rehoboth. Richard came to the colony sometime between
> > > > 1668 and 1689 and was married to Judith Upham.
> > > >
> > > > Going to start at the end of your message. Richard was married to
> > > > Elizabeth SALTER per:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages
> > > > Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., t1991),
> > > > p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTYN, Richard & Elizabeth SALTER;
> > > > m 9 June 1630 Ottery St Mary, co Devon."
> > > >
> > > > 2. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations,
> > > > Descendants of the Pilgrims Who landed at Plymouth, Mass. December 1620:
> > > > Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section)
> > > > (Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46.
> > > > [Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283].
> > > > "JOHN MARTIN, bp. Ottery St. Mary, Devonshire, England 20 Jan. 1652/3,
> > > > d. Rehoboth 28 Aug. 1720; son of Richard and Elizabeth (Salter)
> > > > Martin.[4]
> > > >
> > > > 3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700
> > > > (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492.
> > > > "MARTIN, Richard (-1694?, 1695?) (bro of Abraham) & Elizabeth SALTER (is
> > > > this reliable?); 9 Jun 1631, b 1633; Rehoboth."
> > > >
> > > > Robert was married to Joanna UPHAM per:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages
> > > > Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991),
> > > > p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTIN, Robert & Joanna UPHAM; m 16
> > > > Nov 1618 Ottery St Mary, co Devon."
> > > >
> > > > 3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700
> > > > (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 493.
> > > > "MARTIN, Robert .... & Joanna UPHAM (1591-1669?) (sis of John); prob bef
> > > > 1620...."
> > > >
> > > > As to the children of Richard and Elizabeth (SALTER) MARTIN, at this
> > > > time I have only 2 issues listed for them. There may be more but I
> > > > haven't stumbled on them yet. I have:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Annis/Anne/Agnes/ b. c1649 prob in Eng.- d. 1730 Barrington, Bristol
> > > > Co. MA - now in RI. She married 1670 in Swansea Joseph/2 CHAFFEE. They
> > > > are my ancestors.
> > > >
> > > > 2. John bp. 1653 Ottery St. Mary's Church, Devonshire, England - died
> > > > 1720 Rehoboth, MA. His first marriage 1681 in Rehoboth was to Mercy/3
> > > > BILLINGTON and second marriage 1719 Rehoboth to Abigail READ.
> > > >
> > > > These are the only issue I have for them at this time.
> > > >
> > > > Richard was not only brother of Robert but of Abraham too. The CHAFFEE
> > > > genealogy says on p. 21, in "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...
> > > > Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph
> > > > Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was
> > > > given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin."
> > > >
> > > > and Torrey, p. 492, says Richard was brother of Abraham.
> > > >
> > > > Probably the only sure source of issue for Richard and Elizabeth
> > > > (SALTER) MARTIN are the church registries of Ottery St. Mary's Church,
> > > > Devonshire, England. Any children for them would have had to be born
> > > > before they immigrated because they were probably in their 50 and 60s.
> > > > The LDS/FHC probably have the church registries on microfilm. You really
> > > > have to be careful in any data/research done on any early New England
> > > > Richard MARTIN for there were several Richard MARTIN
> > > > progenitor/immigrants. Many many early sources have really mixed up on
> > > > their Richard info by crediting info to the wrong Richards.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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Source Facts:
birth, event, gender, location, marriage, name, relative
